Thanks for the insight, J Hooper. I’m somewhat familiar with affiliate marketing but admittedly not very knowledgeable. It’s a cousin of network marketing and it’s an area that some clients inquire about. Clearly, I need to learn more about it. Thanks for the info.
Tyler, great question. As with all law related questions, the answer is “it depends.” I currently do not have a Westlaw/Lexis subscription. Depending on your niche, I think it’s certainly fine to practice without a Wexis subscription. And Fastcase does offer users the ability to cross-reference cases. I might be in a bubble in the sense that most of my work is transactional and involves contract development and other administrative details for start-up companies. If a lawyer was doing a lot of litigation work (or even a little) and maybe some criminal defense, I would strongly urge them to fork out the cash to get Lexis or Westlaw. I had Lexis at my old employer’s office and we paid near $500 a month. It’s an absolute monopoly on publicly available documents! I think the open source movement will make those companies irrelevant in the near future, though. All the best.
Great link, Benjamin! I had never read that by Seth. He is right. I like it when he said, “The entire focus of the enterprise is to make the enterprise bigger.” That’s the classic symptom of a pyramid scheme. Thanks for sharing.
The opportunities are with companies with innovative products at marketable prices. If the prices are too jacked up, distributors are forced to focus on recruiting. But if the products are priced right and are not commodities, there’s an opportunity for distributors to tell the product story, make some sales, and change their finances.
Tex, as for profits from the sales of support materials, I agree that disclosure of those profits is important. But the million dollar question: how much of those profits do you disclose? If Bill Britt talks about flying around on a private jet, does he need to disclaim that the plane was purchased with tool income or amway income? Or is a broad disclaimer at the end sufficient? What say you?
Anon, in my view, the DSA does fail in this regard. They’ve stated on their blog (direct selling 411) that the DSA’s job is to keep direct selling companies in business. They’re advocates for the companies, not for consumers.
Jared, The Advocate Group is wherever I am:) I’m currently in Michigan but moving to Nashville in early May. If you need to contact me, please feel free to do so at: kevin at theadvocategroup dot net.
Former IBO, what do you think about Amway’s actions in England. I’m specifically referring to the tiered approach where an IBO can only sponsor someone else after they’ve sold over $400 of products. Do you think that would help them in the United States?
I agree that the price reductions in England were huge. The field cannot sell products if they’re priced out of the market. In my opinion, Amway got away with higher prices because they knew the recruitment engines in the field would overstate the opportunity, thus leading to people buying products at higher prices.
As far as Pokorny, I do think there are some teeth there. The most interesting allegations for me are the RICO allegations. The plaintiffs alleged that the tool companies and Amway knowingly conspired with one another to defraud consumers (by offering an unviable opportunity dependent on recruiting, not selling). If proven true, we might see US Attorneys (federal prosecutors) pursuing both the company (pyramid scheme) and members in the field (promoters).
As for the tool profits leading to distributors focusing on sponsoring instead of selling (because “customers don’t buy tools”), I think the root cause of all field behavior can be traced to the network marketing company’s pay plan. If their pay plan rewards retailing, then the tool companies will educate their folks on how to sell. If the pay plan rewards recruiting, then vice versa.
The most significant change from a legal perspective IS the tiered approach. The tiered approach forces everyone in the field to sell. There’s no work-around. And since a distributor needs to sell before they can sponsor, the downlines develop more slowly.
Customer sales are not a factor in the saturation analysis. If everyone in the country were a customer of XYZ MLM, it’s not saturated. Saturation occurs when the only way to make money is to recruit, and with each successive generation of recruits, there is a diminishing opportunity. Don’t take my word for it, read Koscot. With the tiered approach, I’d be willing to bet that there will only be enough distributors in a particular region to service that particular population.
I don’t understand Accreditation either. I recently received a message via Facebook from a girl I haven’t talked to in 15 years. She thanked me for writing the article and explained her experience with Amway. She didn’t even know she was supposed to sell Amway products. I told her Amway was trying to fix this problem and she probably got hooked up with a bad field leader. But it goes to show that they have a lot of work to do in the U.S.
The DSA has issues.
The pages skip because I’m cutting and pasting the pages from a master document. I release part V next week along with the full ebook.
Very well said, Hilory. What’s your background? You have a good grasp for the concepts. Tex, I read your earlier comment about the incentives favoring recruiting because tool sales depend on distributors, not customers. I understand your issues with tool companies (you’re very vocal about them). However, instead of constantly gunning for tool companies, why not allocate some blame to the mother-ship? At the end of the day (and you’ll learn this in Part IV), the network marketing company is held responsible for the behaviors of the field. He who controls the carrot controls the direction.
Whether a distributor marks the price up for a retail sale or sells it at cost is not entirely relevant. When I say “retail sale” in the ebook, I’m referring to a sale made to a non-participant. If a distributor can earn income by primarily focusing on selling products at distributor cost to non-participants, I’m good with it. And although you say that very few prospects would be interested in selling, that’s exactly the point behind direct sales…individuals representing a brand and selling to people in their network. If it’s positioned as a “nah, you really don’t need to sell, just recruit….” kind of business, the red flag goes up.
Point 1, you’re right. But in order for distributors to earn immediate profit, there needs to be a markup for retail sales. Once their sales are substantial enough and they climb the bonus chart, they can earn commissions. I like Amway’s tiered approach…an approach they implemented in England. I comment on the tiered approach in Part 4 (next week).
Point 2, you’re correct. I apologize for the oversight.
Point 3, proportionality of tool income to product income does not render the tool business illegal. As I’ve written about in this ebook, the focus needs to be placed on the business model: how are the commissions earned? Can a distributor make a living by primarily focusing on selling products to nonparticipants? Proportionality isn’t part of that equation.
You strike me as a Googley law student. You’re going to be just fine, my man! Just don’t follow the traditional map because it leads you off a cliff. Just fyi. If you’re able to work at a large firm, great. Get good experience, get paid, and get gone when you’re able.
Paul, you’re right. There’s a balance between appearing too “cheap” and costing too much. Seth Godin always preaches about charging a premium and marketing the value like crazy. However, I just think the market can no longer bear high fees. So on the one hand, it might appear that lawyers are offering their services for “cheap.” But on the other hand, those lawyers might just be ahead of the curve.
Paul, we should chat and figure out how to create a networked platform where lawyers can associate/aggregate to perform services for larger clients. The market rewards efficiency and you can’t get more efficient than a virtual network with low overhead.
It’s all about adding value, isn’t it. I think law schools will start hinting at outsourcing in a few years. LPO (legal process outsourcing) still needs to further ingrain itself in the business models of most law practices. Plus, since students are not expected to be running their own businesses out of law school, it might not be a good topic for them. Just my thoughts.
FTC asks for more funding from Congress
August 6th, 2009 at 4:39 pmIBOfightback is passionate about Amway. His blog is here: http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/
FTC asks for more funding from Congress
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:58 pmWhere did you see the testimony? C-SPAN? I’d like to see it.
FTC launches new initiative, "Operation Short Change"
July 6th, 2009 at 2:46 pmThanks for the insight, J Hooper. I’m somewhat familiar with affiliate marketing but admittedly not very knowledgeable. It’s a cousin of network marketing and it’s an area that some clients inquire about. Clearly, I need to learn more about it. Thanks for the info.
Tips and tricks to help solo practitioners run a law practice for under $100 a month
June 15th, 2009 at 8:34 pmTyler, great question. As with all law related questions, the answer is “it depends.” I currently do not have a Westlaw/Lexis subscription. Depending on your niche, I think it’s certainly fine to practice without a Wexis subscription. And Fastcase does offer users the ability to cross-reference cases. I might be in a bubble in the sense that most of my work is transactional and involves contract development and other administrative details for start-up companies. If a lawyer was doing a lot of litigation work (or even a little) and maybe some criminal defense, I would strongly urge them to fork out the cash to get Lexis or Westlaw. I had Lexis at my old employer’s office and we paid near $500 a month. It’s an absolute monopoly on publicly available documents! I think the open source movement will make those companies irrelevant in the near future, though. All the best.
FTC flexes its muscles, Distributors lash out at USANA (again)
May 18th, 2009 at 4:55 pmGreat link, Benjamin! I had never read that by Seth. He is right. I like it when he said, “The entire focus of the enterprise is to make the enterprise bigger.” That’s the classic symptom of a pyramid scheme. Thanks for sharing.
FTC flexes its muscles, Distributors lash out at USANA (again)
May 6th, 2009 at 8:22 pmThe opportunities are with companies with innovative products at marketable prices. If the prices are too jacked up, distributors are forced to focus on recruiting. But if the products are priced right and are not commodities, there’s an opportunity for distributors to tell the product story, make some sales, and change their finances.
FTC flexes its muscles, Distributors lash out at USANA (again)
May 1st, 2009 at 8:17 amThe links should work now. I don’t know how that happened.
Thank you!
April 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pmTex, as for profits from the sales of support materials, I agree that disclosure of those profits is important. But the million dollar question: how much of those profits do you disclose? If Bill Britt talks about flying around on a private jet, does he need to disclaim that the plane was purchased with tool income or amway income? Or is a broad disclaimer at the end sufficient? What say you?
Thank you!
April 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pmAnon, in my view, the DSA does fail in this regard. They’ve stated on their blog (direct selling 411) that the DSA’s job is to keep direct selling companies in business. They’re advocates for the companies, not for consumers.
Defining the Gray, Part 4
April 8th, 2009 at 11:53 amJared, The Advocate Group is wherever I am:) I’m currently in Michigan but moving to Nashville in early May. If you need to contact me, please feel free to do so at: kevin at theadvocategroup dot net.
Defining the Gray, Part 4
April 7th, 2009 at 4:09 pmFormer IBO, what do you think about Amway’s actions in England. I’m specifically referring to the tiered approach where an IBO can only sponsor someone else after they’ve sold over $400 of products. Do you think that would help them in the United States?
Defining the Gray, Part 4
April 7th, 2009 at 9:00 amI agree that the price reductions in England were huge. The field cannot sell products if they’re priced out of the market. In my opinion, Amway got away with higher prices because they knew the recruitment engines in the field would overstate the opportunity, thus leading to people buying products at higher prices.
As far as Pokorny, I do think there are some teeth there. The most interesting allegations for me are the RICO allegations. The plaintiffs alleged that the tool companies and Amway knowingly conspired with one another to defraud consumers (by offering an unviable opportunity dependent on recruiting, not selling). If proven true, we might see US Attorneys (federal prosecutors) pursuing both the company (pyramid scheme) and members in the field (promoters).
As for the tool profits leading to distributors focusing on sponsoring instead of selling (because “customers don’t buy tools”), I think the root cause of all field behavior can be traced to the network marketing company’s pay plan. If their pay plan rewards retailing, then the tool companies will educate their folks on how to sell. If the pay plan rewards recruiting, then vice versa.
The most significant change from a legal perspective IS the tiered approach. The tiered approach forces everyone in the field to sell. There’s no work-around. And since a distributor needs to sell before they can sponsor, the downlines develop more slowly.
Customer sales are not a factor in the saturation analysis. If everyone in the country were a customer of XYZ MLM, it’s not saturated. Saturation occurs when the only way to make money is to recruit, and with each successive generation of recruits, there is a diminishing opportunity. Don’t take my word for it, read Koscot. With the tiered approach, I’d be willing to bet that there will only be enough distributors in a particular region to service that particular population.
I don’t understand Accreditation either. I recently received a message via Facebook from a girl I haven’t talked to in 15 years. She thanked me for writing the article and explained her experience with Amway. She didn’t even know she was supposed to sell Amway products. I told her Amway was trying to fix this problem and she probably got hooked up with a bad field leader. But it goes to show that they have a lot of work to do in the U.S.
The DSA has issues.
The pages skip because I’m cutting and pasting the pages from a master document. I release part V next week along with the full ebook.
Pyramid Schemes: Defining the Gray, Part I
March 31st, 2009 at 8:13 pmVery well said, Hilory. What’s your background? You have a good grasp for the concepts. Tex, I read your earlier comment about the incentives favoring recruiting because tool sales depend on distributors, not customers. I understand your issues with tool companies (you’re very vocal about them). However, instead of constantly gunning for tool companies, why not allocate some blame to the mother-ship? At the end of the day (and you’ll learn this in Part IV), the network marketing company is held responsible for the behaviors of the field. He who controls the carrot controls the direction.
Pyramid Schemes: Defining the Gray, Part I
March 30th, 2009 at 12:57 amWhether a distributor marks the price up for a retail sale or sells it at cost is not entirely relevant. When I say “retail sale” in the ebook, I’m referring to a sale made to a non-participant. If a distributor can earn income by primarily focusing on selling products at distributor cost to non-participants, I’m good with it. And although you say that very few prospects would be interested in selling, that’s exactly the point behind direct sales…individuals representing a brand and selling to people in their network. If it’s positioned as a “nah, you really don’t need to sell, just recruit….” kind of business, the red flag goes up.
Pyramid Schemes: Defining the Gray, Part I
March 29th, 2009 at 9:08 pmTex,
Point 1, you’re right. But in order for distributors to earn immediate profit, there needs to be a markup for retail sales. Once their sales are substantial enough and they climb the bonus chart, they can earn commissions. I like Amway’s tiered approach…an approach they implemented in England. I comment on the tiered approach in Part 4 (next week).
Point 2, you’re correct. I apologize for the oversight.
Point 3, proportionality of tool income to product income does not render the tool business illegal. As I’ve written about in this ebook, the focus needs to be placed on the business model: how are the commissions earned? Can a distributor make a living by primarily focusing on selling products to nonparticipants? Proportionality isn’t part of that equation.
Abundance of opportunities in law
February 25th, 2009 at 9:29 pmTyler,
You strike me as a Googley law student. You’re going to be just fine, my man! Just don’t follow the traditional map because it leads you off a cliff. Just fyi. If you’re able to work at a large firm, great. Get good experience, get paid, and get gone when you’re able.
10 Best Legal Movies of all time
February 21st, 2009 at 10:52 amYea, Presumed Innocent was pretty fantastic! And Gary, I love that scene in Scent of Woman! Love it!
10 Best Legal Movies of all time
February 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pmI haven’t seen it, but it’s now in my netflix queue. Thanks!
"The Billable Hour Must Die"
February 12th, 2009 at 11:43 amPaul, you’re right. There’s a balance between appearing too “cheap” and costing too much. Seth Godin always preaches about charging a premium and marketing the value like crazy. However, I just think the market can no longer bear high fees. So on the one hand, it might appear that lawyers are offering their services for “cheap.” But on the other hand, those lawyers might just be ahead of the curve.
What's a Googley lawyer?
February 11th, 2009 at 9:54 amPaul, we should chat and figure out how to create a networked platform where lawyers can associate/aggregate to perform services for larger clients. The market rewards efficiency and you can’t get more efficient than a virtual network with low overhead.
The growing trend of outsourcing
January 21st, 2009 at 3:19 pmIt’s all about adding value, isn’t it. I think law schools will start hinting at outsourcing in a few years. LPO (legal process outsourcing) still needs to further ingrain itself in the business models of most law practices. Plus, since students are not expected to be running their own businesses out of law school, it might not be a good topic for them. Just my thoughts.